live vs. the studio

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Sugarcubes Forever
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Postby Sugarcubes Forever » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:22 am

This type of phoney live album should simply be called something else. It's false advertising. It's disingenuous. It's a lie.

On a similar note, bands with uninspiring albums who rock their live shows is one thing, but bands with great live albums and piss-poor live shows should be exterminated. I've seen a lot of concerts and the ones that were the most disappointing were those that plainly exposed the lack of musicianship, skill and talent that is often hidden on over-produced records. The worst such example in my now three decades as a concert goer has to be RATT.

ryanking
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Postby ryanking » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:01 pm

Scotty, you should check out Jake's link to the Monkees record. Purely live! Egah!

D. Phillips
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Postby D. Phillips » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:19 pm

Robbin Crosby. original second guitarist of Ratt, died just this week. Pour a little beer on the curb for him Scott.

I was actually a member of the Ratt fan club as a kid. I had all kinds of crap from them, including an "autographed" picture of the band. "Round and Round" is still a great song.

“What about the album fails to capture or otherwise compromises the sound of the band at a given moment in time? Just because they overdub a bass part over maybe a quarter of the song because the bassist slipped and fell doesn't change the nature of the performance or the songs.”

Josh, you're fucking high if you think that editing out and re-recording ONE FOURTH of a song should still be considered "live." If the bass player fell down in the middle of a song then that’s what happened in that particular moment and as such, should either be used OR find another performance of that song. Either way, what you describe does NOT constitute a live performance in my mind.

Joshua
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Postby Joshua » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:29 pm

I wouldn't disagree that labeling something "live" when it's been touched up is a deception. Call it something else if you want to - I'm just saying that musically, in terms of presenting an image of the band and their material ata amoment in time, it's far from a crime to release a piece that combines the most important aspect of a live show - the unique real-time interaction and creation of the song, let's just call it the "feel" - with the quality of a flawless performance and ideal presentation of the song. I don't see how there's anything wrong with that.

I think you're being unnecessarily literal and uncompromising on this, DP.

Now - about being high...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Joshua on 2002-06-12 17:35 ]</font>

Jake
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Postby Jake » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:51 pm

I think flawness = boring more often than not. (Except your drumming, Josh... It's flawless and fascinatingly so!)

Phineas
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Postby Phineas » Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:39 pm

Aren't the flaws one of the reasons one goes to shows and, by extension, acquires live music? I mean, the whole point of a live album (money-grubbing aside) is to simulate the live experience, right? If I wanted to hear a perfect version of a particular song (nothing wrong with that, BTW) I would stay home and have done with it.

That's why I prefer bootleg live shows to proper live albums. 1 big file with transparent breaks between songs - no way to hide the evidence when the lead guitarist fucks up or the singer sings the verses in the wrong order. That's what live music is about, the difference between the CD and the musician standing in front of you.

And, for what it's worth, completely redubbing one fourth of a live song would make it less "live" than many studio tracks. Someone doing that and stamping "live" on the wrapper ought to be subjected to hour upon hour of Ratt, Clockwork-style.

trix
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Postby trix » Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:57 am

live performances are about 3 things:
music, performance, atmosphere.
studio performances are just about the music.

you rarely get a sense of atmosphere or an amazing performance from a cd. you have to see the gig...
the music is only 1/3 of a live show, so why record your music at low strength?

its worse touching up alive recording, thats cheating!

Joshua
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Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:18 am

OK, clearly I'm a minority of one here. Whatever. It's not the first time.

Jake - you've proven once again why you're the ringmaster of this circus: you have excellent taste. ;] want to form a band? I'm moving to Chicago and I don't think my guitar player likes me any more.

D. Phillips
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Postby D. Phillips » Thu Jun 13, 2002 11:40 am

Josh,
Just don't expect to EVER redub your drum parts on any of our many live releases. That and don't ever wear that Janet Jackson microphone headgear again...ever.
DP

Joshua
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Postby Joshua » Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:41 pm

What makes you think I would ever think to dub a drum part? Now you're high. I was just saying that improving the technical performance of a show doesn't necessarily have an effect on the overall feel of the live show.

As for the mic - well - mistakes were made...


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