Fuck you, America

This is the place where you can vent whatever's on your mind. Feel free to go off on extended rants or brief blurbs about whatever's rocking your world.

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jonas
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Post by jonas » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:09 pm

Sugarcubes Forever wrote: My point was that Dems are dipshits. They made an uniformed choice based on their Liberal-thinking stereotypes of "the rest" of americans are like. (IE. that middle america would elect a war hero) I'm not in disagreement with the idea that we should front a candidate who is "electable". But that decision should be made with a few facts in hand. The fact is that Kerry never polled well with independants, moderates or conservatives. THOSE are the people that Dems were supposedly going after by nominating Kerry. Back in the primary season, those voters were saying that Edwards was preferable.
Frankly I think you're being smug and self-righteous after the fact. Kerry was selected in a primary process by all those "dipshits" who subsequently turned up to vote for him, and he managed to get 49% of the total vote, which is pretty fucking amazing given how badly the campaign was run. Meanwhile, neither you nor I know how much electability figured into primary voting, versus how much they actually liked Kerry (or mistrusted Edwards).

Little Timmy
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Post by Little Timmy » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:40 pm

My wife is a dyed-in-the-wool-socks-under-Birkenstock-sandals progressive who was reelected last night to a second term on my county soil & water conservation board. Whooppee-shit, right? After surveying this train-wreck of an election, I realized I had never really told her how proud I am that she is doing what needs to be done to get us out of this wilderness, namely, to start chipping away at Republican hegemony little by little, starting at the local level. That is precisely what the Republicans did (quite successfully) in the years after after Watergate. Of course, when I offered this revelation to my wife, she gave me the look without saying, "Why, yes, dear, you are a clueless and inconsiderate beast," but replied that she is ready to start standing in front of bulldozers. I'm not sure whether the Democatic Party is worth salvaging, yet we had all better get the hand-wringing and breast-beating out of our systems and start rebuilding progressive, grassroots politics.

Sugarcubes Forever
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Post by Sugarcubes Forever » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:50 pm

Jonas,

I'm being honest. Running my mouth like I would if the GloNo homies were sitting with me at the bar, several pints into the evening. I'm not trying fight about this election loss, only bounce my thoughts off people I think of my friends.

Once the primaries are over I think it's time for the party to rally round the winner and go to it. After a loss I think it's time to look at what is wrong and fix it. I wouldn't say I'm smug. I'm pissed off. I might claim a tad bit of self righteousness. How could any sane liberal be self righteous about the impending doom of the next 4 years. I definately don't suffer from liberal guilt, though.

I'm as upset as anybody about this. But come-on. We all knew what the opposition was doing. We all knew that GW was a son of a bitch, and that he, Cheney and Rove would do anything to poison the political well. Kerry did great. But it wasn't good enough. It's got to be better next time.

Blah blah blah....anyway, I'm too burnt out from the last 48 hours to piss anymore. Tomorrow I'm focusing on 2006. Jennifer Granholm, our Democratic Governor will be up for reelection and I intend to do my part to keep the Republinazi's out of the Governor's mansion in Lansing.

Peace Out

Barabajagal
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Post by Barabajagal » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:06 pm

campfirewood, that's awesome. I admire that very much.

Jake (and to whomever else it may concern), don't sweat it. Redistricting is what parties do when they're in power. Sure, there is a lot more "conservatism" at this moment in history. We need to recognize why this is and tailor a progressive message accordingly, and also with respect. The differences between us as Americans and citizens of the world are not irreconciliable.

I'm not saying don't worry, be happy. Be disappointed, but don't give them the satisfaction of dejection!

miss carol
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Post by miss carol » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:39 pm

campfirewood, that took guts! a belated congrats.

s-forever: i see your point. once we've ranted and vented our profound disappointement and stopped pointing fingers. it's time to use that work ethic, roll up our sleeves, and get to work. i think right now, though, we all have to recover from the sucker punch delivered to our collective gut.

i use "we" and "our" because canadians are going to be affected by this man and his administration.

Heitzie
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Post by Heitzie » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:06 pm

Painful as it is to say, it may take this administration overreaching it's grasp - and doing something to alienate even their base, not just Americans who can read and think for themselves. For example, a draft (which they will need to start any more foreign adventures in Cuba or Iran, and maybe to guard their oil pipelines in Iraq even) or overturning Roe v. Wade.

Considering what a corrupt f*ck up Dubya and his cronies are, it may mean things have to get a whole lot worse before they get better. Americans are largely a complacent lot, happy with their bread (tax cuts) and circuses(football, nascar - I do love football) and you may have to impede their rights in a big way to force change. But it may come seeing how full of themselves the Right have become.

miss carol
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Post by miss carol » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:24 pm

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think overturning Roe v Wade will cause as much of an upheaval as it ought. Indeed, since Bush won on "values", pro-choice isn't among them.

...but does WalMart share those values? They won't stock George Carlin, but it WILL stock PlayStations Kill Zone "just like being in the trenches!"

Not sure I understand THOSE values.

infectiousdisease
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Post by infectiousdisease » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:26 am

Ok, because anger turned on its side is humour, my friends and I were figuring out ironic ways to get Bush out of office as our form of outrage and grief.

My favourite? Turning his whole 'values' schtick on its ear by sneaking a girl under his desk a la Lewinsky. Brings 'fuck Bush' to a whole new level, doesn't it?

Runner up: smoking him with one of those newly-legal assault rifles.

Sorry if this lowered the level of the entire discussion, but really. I've gotten so tired of rehashing the issues, expressing shock over the fact that Bush won and being thoughful and reasonable that now it's time for a joke in bad taste, I think.

PS. Best city in Canada, IMO? Ottawa. I can't justify it...but something about the vibe makes it my undeniable favourite.

Dreamin
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Ah yes, the grass is always greener... waaaay OT

Post by Dreamin » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:15 am

infectiousdisease wrote:PS. Best city in Canada, IMO? Ottawa. I can't justify it...but something about the vibe makes it my undeniable favourite.
I like Ottawa, but govt towns can be boring as hell. No wonder Maggie went stir crazy and ran off with the Rolling Stones!

My fave city is (and will always be) Vancouver: Mint Records, CiTR, Zulu, Red Cat, South Main, Vij's, 15 min from downtown to night skiing on Grouse Mtn after work, the smell of wet cedar and BC bud, wild Pacific salmon, good cheap sushi, nature and shit, great music scene (past and present - DOA, cub, Zumpano, Destroyer, the New Pornographers, young & sexy, the Smugglers, the Be Good Tanyas, etc.) and the Fabulous Commodore Ballroom (smallish GA venue where I saw the Pixies and Tom Waits earlier this year).

Other fave Canadian cities are Halifax (birthplace of Sloan) and Montreal (Leonard Cohen). Fave American city (so far) is San Francisco. (I've yet to visit Chicago.) International faves (so far): Melbourne and Amsterdam. Want to visit Stockholm and London.

I think it might be time to organize an International GloNo exchange program.

Okay, back OT (or not)...

jaimoe0
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Post by jaimoe0 » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:03 am

Jake wrote: I don't think there's anything they could possibly do that they couldn't just deny or ignore. The People will forget it. The media won't hammer it home. These guys make Reagan look like velcro. The People just don't care.

They won. We lost. Let's go somewhere else and let them have their bankrupt, polluted, terrorized shithole of a country. We can't win. We did our best and it wasn't enough. It's not going to get better. Ever.

They're constantly changing the rules to make sure they can't lose. Look at the state of Texas' redistricting fiasco. You think shit like that's not going to continue to happen all over the country? It's over.
Anyone who buys into this shit is a loser. There is so much here worth fighting for, and I will never stop speaking up for what I believe in, trying to secure liberty, freedom and rights for ALL Americans, and voting for whom I believe to be the best candidate. Quitting ain't in the cards. Shame on you, Jake. You sound like a pussy.

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