media vs. punk rock?

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Sugarcubes Forever
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Postby Sugarcubes Forever » Thu May 09, 2002 3:15 pm

Sorry, but I think Merle Haggard made some pretty f-ing cool music. One of the real country greats, not the pop crowd that the Nashville media machine churns out. I'll let the legal system dole out the punishment. It's what they do afterwards that's important. I'll avoid the PTA/Soccer-mom mentality that once someone is convicted of a crime they should tortured and persecuted until even their memory has been erased from the face of the earth.

I'll worry about guys like ICP who make racist hate music, and stop worrying about whether Jerry Lee Lewis is a child molester.

This starts to remind me of a time that Pat, Jake and I were driving down to Kzoo for beer. Jake and I got in an arguement about Eminem. Jake took the side that the guy was performing his songs almost as a character, that there was a context to some of his lyrics. I took the side that he was a sick individual who shouldn't be rewarded by people through sales of his albums. Today, I own his last album. I think that now I almost (75%) agree with Jake.

Jake
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Postby Jake » Thu May 09, 2002 3:27 pm

Ha. And I find myself thinking that the whole "narrator" argument is usually just a cop-out. I still love the classic, misogynist, homophobic rap music though (NWA, Eazy E, Ice Cube).

Sugarcubes Forever
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Postby Sugarcubes Forever » Thu May 09, 2002 3:48 pm

He he. Give me Sir Mix A Lot sitting on top of a 20' high butt instead of another Biggy Smalls/2 Pac tribute video anyday.

I want my country music to come from gun carrying, pot smoking criminals.

I want my punk from kids on smack who think I'm an old man.

I want my rap from actual gangsters who hate women and think I'm yuppie white scum.

I want my Rock n Roll straight from GloNo radio!

helen
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Postby helen » Thu May 09, 2002 4:39 pm

I was listening to that new Eminem song on the radio yesterday morning and thinking, notwithstanding his politics, which, whatever, he can say whatever he wants, artistic license and all that, but he's just not good...his rhymes are forced, his rythym is boring, it's just not any good, and I do have a respect for good rap...
Back to the murdering musicians -- what about all the people who commit murders who AREN'T musicians -- there are far more than those who do -- and all of the musicians who aren't murderers...But as for music and murder, have to add Charles Manson's adoption of Helter Skelter as a "theme song"

ryanking
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Postby ryanking » Thu May 09, 2002 4:39 pm

Imagery in music, sung through the eyes of a character, is one thing. Music created by killers is another.

If your desire to buy an artist's music is amplified in any way by your thinking the artist is a LAW BREAKING BADASS, you are buying straight into that whole rock and roll rebel fallacy, where the wilder you are on stage, the more drugs you do, the bigger badass you are, the more you should be revered.

But who really reveres lawbreakin' tough guy musicians? What is this audience made up of? Mostly, people who get off on living vicariously through the perceived rebellion of the artist, or meatheads who think that their appreciating a tough guy's record somehow adds an inch to their dick.

Now maybe you can say you don't like them any MORE because they killed a man, you just don't care WHAT they do.

Me, I give a fuck about real life violence and death and the way it tears down a good human being. I guess ultimately it comes down to whether or not you can separate the art from the person who made it. I can't. Especially not when I know the artist is getting rich off my dollar.

Jake
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Postby Jake » Thu May 09, 2002 4:58 pm

Now maybe you can say you don't like them any MORE because they killed a man, you just don't care WHAT they do.

I actually think it's pretty cool that Leadbelly killed a man. And I think Merle Haggard is cooler now that I learned he did too. That said, I don't think Johnny Cash is any less cool even though he never really shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. But that's one of the coolest lines in recorded music history. I think it's cool to sing about killing (Louvin Brothers, Handsome Family, Snoop Dogg, etc.).

Me, I give a fuck about real life violence and death and the way it tears down a good human being.

Just because someone was a murder victim doesn't necessarily make them a good human being.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu May 09, 2002 5:32 pm

charles manson... sure, the beatles tie-in, that's one thing. but don't forget that he was also a musician. and as vh-1 would have us believe, it was the failure as a musician that lead him to become a cult messiah and killer.

oh, just had a thought... vince neil killed someone by driving drunk. not premeditated murder, but it murder all the same.

ryanking
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Postby ryanking » Fri May 10, 2002 8:48 am

You just gotta think, how cool would it be if a musician killed YOU? Would you be saying, "Oh man, this is so cool, I've got a belly full of lead from Lead Belly. It hurts like hell and my life is fucking ending but how much cooler can you get?... aacck..."

I guess it's true that we don't really know what happened in these disputes where somebody got shot by Merle or Leadbelly. We don't even know about the person who was ended by Vince Neil. And Scotty has a point about letting the courts of law handle that.

But I still maintain that it's wrong to think an artist is cool 'cause they killed someone. That little electric twinge of excitement a person gets when they imagine the killing situation, that is a natural feeling, but not a feeling that should be honored or revered without consideration for the dead. The people involved were as real as you or me, and NOT imaginary characters (Johnny Cash can kill that man in Reno as many times as he wants. And that IS a fucking cool lyric.) But if real people are involed, it's respect for the dead, man. And respect for the living, in the case of this punk rocker jive turkey from Wisconsin.

Sugarcubes Forever
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Postby Sugarcubes Forever » Fri May 10, 2002 9:18 am

I don't actually like anyones music because they've broken the law. That's just stupid. I make statements like that to be sarcastic. I'm also not such an absolutist that I wouldn't listen to someone's stuff just because they were convicted of a felony. Anyway, once the time is served they've paid their debt.

There are only a few seriously awful crimes that would lead me to boycotting someone's material. Genocide would be the main one. I wouldn't cruise around Farmington Hills with the latest Adolf Hitler CD in blasting out of my car windows.

In fact, I'd be more likely to stop listening to someone based on their politics than on what laws they've broken. I actually used to like Metallica, but after their little self righteous MP3 incidents a few years ago, they can suck me before I ever pay for one of their disks (all their new stuff sucks now anyway).

On the flip side, I like Roman Polansky films. The guy's never had his day in court. I'm not going to boycot any of his movies because he boinked an underage girl.

Should I put away my favorite Elvis songs because he cheated on Pracilla, or even because he was rooting her when she was still in high school, which I believe even then was against the law?

Bring on the Killaz, rapists and drug dealers. Give em all a record deal. Who really gives a sh*t!

Jake
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Postby Jake » Fri May 10, 2002 10:18 am

Genocide would be the main one. I wouldn't cruise around Farmington Hills with the latest Adolf Hitler CD in blasting out of my car windows.


But you've got to admit it sounds really cool and scary when Marilyn Manson samples and loops that "Hiel" sound and the jackboots stomping on "Beautiful People."

KEEP MUSIC EVIL.<center><p><img src="http://www.gloriousnoise.com/images/keepmusicevil.gif" border="0" alt="Keep Music Evil"></p></center>


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